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Podcast: SONIC TALK 177 - We're All Doomed
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Greg66666    Said...

I run a Mac and I'm a techno slut so I have all four major DAWS: Logic, Digital Performer, Ableton Live and the "non-DAW" Reason+Record. I have seen the movements and extinctions and consolidations in the software world over the last 20 years or so. Having seen the development of Propellerheads firsthand in that time and how incredibly reliable and rock steady their process is, I just might agree that they will be the creation which survives after the dust settles.

10-Jun-10 11:29 AM

Chuck Chillout    Said...

Next time, please get someone in on the discussion who actually USES the things you're talking about. That was some really silly chatter about software Armageddon and the whole "I think it's cool, but I don't know, because I don't use it". Utterly pointless.

And you might should've nudged Mr. Spiers awake from time to time.

10-Jun-10 11:44 AM

Marc JX8P    Said...

As usual very entertaining, guys! Any idea when Mark and PJ will be able to join again? Also, It'd be cool to have Diego Stocco or another sound designer on there again.

10-Jun-10 03:32 PM

Tronam    Said...

Mac OSX's demise has been greatly exaggerated by a few clueless loose cannons in the techno-blogosphere. I highly recommend reading Daniel Eran Dilger's excellent "reality check" article about this. He is one of the most savvy and competent pundits on all things Apple:

11-Jun-10 12:02 AM

Nick B    Said...

Thanks for the link Tronam, thats a good post. But I still feel there is some validity to the argument that behemoth desktop systems capable of authoring HD or high resolution audio/video/art or whatever with large multi-purpose OS('s) will get marginalized, specialized and therefor more expensive. And thats not due to some overall strategy by Apple, it will be the simple force of economics - supply and demand.

When you consider that for many creative fields, there is a dwindling potential to make a living, maybe content creators will become conglomerated, less numerous, more homogenized based also on the need to succeed commercially like the record companies themselves have constantly shifted and merged to continue to operate economically, or any other strata of business that seems prone to move towards the multi-national model for cost savings. Are we heading for more crazy frog?

Of course, its just an opinion, or even a hypothesis....

11-Jun-10 03:26 AM

Marc JX8P    Said...

I do agree that the 'desktop powerhouse' will be something that will be more and more prosumer and therefore more expensive (because it has a smaller userbase) than it currently is. However, you should factor in that systems become more powerful too and new environments (tablet pc's, iPads, pda's and smart phones) are getting very competetative. At some point the quality of the output of consumer systems will be very close to what a desktop can do now. Also, I could very well imagine more processor intensive tasks being delegated to dsp boxes or even to online servers that you can hire. For example, your tablet could allow you to edit a movie and get a low to mid quality preview after which you can send of the end result to render on a server.

11-Jun-10 07:18 AM

hiltonius    Said...

dear chuck

about whom are you referring, who doesn't use this stuff? i know nick does. i know dave does.

thanks for the constructive commentary.


11-Jun-10 07:29 AM

Kiwi    Said...

Enjoyed the show.. Glad all is back and nice to hear Rich and Daves mellow tones ;-)

About a week ago I sat in on a Movie scoring session where the composer and recording team recorded a real orchestra (the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra actually) for a new New Zealand Movie.

It was awesome to sit in as a guest and observer the process. Cue by Cue inch by inch.

BTW the Orchestra was awesome amaizing profession and skilled.

The original score was developed in Logic by the composer, transcribed into Sibelius by tweh composer and his copyist team, and the "real instrument material (which I was in attendance for the recording) captured in Protools.

There will also be some "synthetic" music mixed in.

Great fun and very long winded but really enjoyable to watch.


11-Jun-10 08:22 AM

Tronam    Said...

The content creators have always been a tiny slice of the overall market, so this should be something we're used to by now. If anything, it was much tinier and niche 15+ years ago than it is now. There will always be a need for serious content creation platforms as long as Hollywood and television exists, both of which also depend heavily on audio production as one of their foundational elements. Apple makes the majority of their profits on hardware sales and as long as there are buyers willing to pay, I see no reason whatsoever for them to drop the Mac as a serious creator platform. Besides, as Dilger's article clearly lays out, OSX is the core of the entire ecosystem, so all of their products benefit from continued OSX development.

Regarding albums ales, the era of larger than life rock stars and million+ album sales has been on its deathbed for a while now and I fully agree with Rich's assessment of the ongoing shift away from the album as a cohesive product and more as a collection of independent singles. The upside is that this might cut down on album filler and force artists to strive for more consistent quality. It seems that the entire media/entertainment market is moving more and more towards On-Demand services, so creators will need to adapt to these changes. The new generations of artist will do so, but will the older generations? Kicking and screaming perhaps, but their livelihood will depend upon it.

11-Jun-10 12:39 PM

Nick b    Said...

Tronam I agree about the size of the creative market back in the day but, when it comes to apple, that was pretty much their entire market back then. Nowadays it has become a much broader usage and therefore more marginalised.

Apples were traditionally the computer of choice for the creative type with much if not most of the software and hardware - think graphics, geared towards that market.

12-Jun-10 04:21 AM

Chuck Chillout    Said...


I'm talking about you, Rich. Nick doesn't use Reason or Record, the dead guy in the corner doesn't use Reason or Record, and you admitted that you only "messed around with the (Record) demo". Reason 5/Record 1.5 is a major update . . . big news . . . but there was nobody who a: really knew anything about it (Nick read off the bullet points), and b: uses Reason or Record.

You just kept repeating this pointless "I like what they're (Props) doing, but I'm not exactly sure WHAT they're doing, because I don't actually use their stuff . . . but I've got a hunch that we all may be using their stuff!" line, which was just silly.

You talked a mile about something that you've got about an inch of experience with, and it's a waste of everybody's time. Break it down, jack: gimme a blow-by-blow, feature comparison . . . likes/dislikes . . . SPECIFICS!

If I want smoke blown, I'll wait 'till they elect the new Pope.

If you're gonna mail it in, or you just like the sound of your own voice, don't bother. Don't waste our time. Come correct or don't come at all, baby!

14-Jun-10 09:51 AM

Nick B    Said...

Chuck, this is how it goes: I felt we should talk about this news as it is as you say Big. That doesnt mean we have to be power users to appreciate the features of this particular package. We all have considerable experience with using DAWs in a professional situation.

Of course, I was hoping/assuming that one or more of us were users of Reason - I hold my hands up and say i dont. But I was mistaken and that is my fault. But not all guests are available at all times, so we discussed it.

But there is not need to be rude or abusive, generally I have found that to be a pretty unconstructive. So feel free not to listen is if gets you so uptight, it will do your blood pressure no end of good.

14-Jun-10 04:31 PM

Ze MigL (aka the lift/ elevator chubby guy from Frakfurt Messe ehehe).    Said...

2 Mr. R. Hilton. @ a certain point in the show you mentioned that one of the things that pulled you away from using Live more intensively for recording/ mixing was the fact that it wasn't easy to quickly assign multiple tracks to a certain bus ... well you can and it easy .. just select multiple tracks and what ever you do gets replicated to all the others including routing ...

Block in Reason .. Nice feat. probably inspired by Cubase who's had it for 2-3 years now (also they're Steinberg sequeal) it's called Play Order tracks ...

Cheers and that's for keeping us informed and entertained.

Ze MigL (aka the lift/ elevator chubby guy from Frakfurt Messe ehehe).

15-Jun-10 07:36 AM

hiltonius    Said...

@chuck with the attitude

i don't choose the topics. i was asked to comment on something with which i had limited experience. as you so "astutely" point out, neither of the others had ANY so i contributed what little i had. this isn't a major news outlet, and we do it for free in our spare time - we don't get budgets that allow us to test every product we review extensively across all the podcasters. we rely on whatever experience as have in the "real world" to carry the show. i'm sorry you've found my contribution to be so disappointing. i suggest you find somebody with more experience to pay attention to in the future. obviously, my opinion is not worthy of your attention.

16-Jun-10 07:51 AM

hiltonius    Said...


thanks so much for the tip! this behavior either didn't exist, or wasn't explained to me at the time i was seeking it! this is really good news to me! :)

16-Jun-10 07:54 AM

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